Comments on: Comrade Stalin would be proud http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/22/comrade-stalin-would-be-proud/ A graduate student in mathematics and a modern languages major take on politics and culture with the following aspirational motto: ‘Deregulate your mind.’ Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:25:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Curt http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/22/comrade-stalin-would-be-proud/#comment-561 Curt Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:44:38 +0000 http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/22/comrade-stalin-would-be-proud/#comment-561 <p><i>Unless Germans self destructively mimics the US where we still must publicly pretend to grovel in apology for things that happened hundreds of years ago, Hitler will one day be seen as just another Napoleon, or at worst an Attila the Hun.</i></p> <p>Well, from what I know from conversing, visiting and reading about the place, I'd say the guilt-resentment complex among Germans regarding their history is far more severe than that of Americans. Patriotism itself in Germany is commonly looked upon as right-wing and immoral, an opinion shared by only a pretty small sector of American society. I certainly don't have much respect for nationalism per se, but the notion of hereditary guilt seems utterly perverse to me, and my impression is that German society has to some extent devolved into a weird anti-patriotism where the elements of German society and history are condemned en masse just as uncritically and irrationally as they would be celebrated by flag-wavers. Which, in essence, is the problem with the monument. The Vietnam memorial may be superficially similar, but the presence of the names is the critical element, which individualizes and humanizes it. Without the names, it would be, and the Holocaust memorial is, just an empty nothingness, where people are no longer human individuals, but undifferentiated instruments of history, saved or damned by what side they are on. In that case, Sisyphus really has been defeated by his boulder, and one may as well give up the game.</p> Unless Germans self destructively mimics the US where we still must publicly pretend to grovel in apology for things that happened hundreds of years ago, Hitler will one day be seen as just another Napoleon, or at worst an Attila the Hun.

Well, from what I know from conversing, visiting and reading about the place, I’d say the guilt-resentment complex among Germans regarding their history is far more severe than that of Americans. Patriotism itself in Germany is commonly looked upon as right-wing and immoral, an opinion shared by only a pretty small sector of American society. I certainly don’t have much respect for nationalism per se, but the notion of hereditary guilt seems utterly perverse to me, and my impression is that German society has to some extent devolved into a weird anti-patriotism where the elements of German society and history are condemned en masse just as uncritically and irrationally as they would be celebrated by flag-wavers. Which, in essence, is the problem with the monument. The Vietnam memorial may be superficially similar, but the presence of the names is the critical element, which individualizes and humanizes it. Without the names, it would be, and the Holocaust memorial is, just an empty nothingness, where people are no longer human individuals, but undifferentiated instruments of history, saved or damned by what side they are on. In that case, Sisyphus really has been defeated by his boulder, and one may as well give up the game.

]]> By: Dave http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/22/comrade-stalin-would-be-proud/#comment-560 Dave Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:45:14 +0000 http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/22/comrade-stalin-would-be-proud/#comment-560 <p>If there is any thing I lack more than an intuitive appreciation of literature it is an appreciation of art. When I see the new Holocaust Memorial I do have an impression that it will grow on people just like the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. In a way it is similar. The Vietnam Memorial is a V shaped depression extending into the ground. It is shiny and greenish black and has the names of each soldier engraved into the stone. You can go and look up your friend or friends who died. The Holocaust Memorial looks like a vast prison surrounded by grey walls. The innumerable plaques dwarf the Vietnam Memorial. I guess you can get in and walk around and go look at each plaque, which appear to be like giant grave stones, but with no names. Does anybody know the names of all the Jews exterminated in the Holocaust? The thing looks really spooky, horrendous and appropriate to me. That being said, self preservation dictates that Germans eventually moves on. </p> <p>As you say“And so long as, and to the extent that, the memorials choose to take the legacy of those years as their tradition and foundation, I don’t see there being any hope of burying that legacy.” True, but this needs to be only temporary. I saw a TV special about a Jew who survived concentration camp and now spends his time going around visiting school children in Germany as they study German history. The kids all seemed torn between feeling guilty for their parents having participated in the Nazi regime and wanting to move on. Frankly I don’t know the proper posture to take in these situations, but I do know that what ever it is it can’t be maintained for ever. There is always a vast difference between the media’s portrayals of “the way things are” and the way things really are. People’s public performances for the camera do not reflect the mundane reality that makes up real life. Hence all these public expressions and portrayals, memorials, etc are basically false. Unless Germans self destructively mimics the US where we still must publicly pretend to grovel in apology for things that happened hundreds of years ago, Hitler will one day be seen as just another Napoleon, or at worst an Attila the Hun.</p> If there is any thing I lack more than an intuitive appreciation of literature it is an appreciation of art. When I see the new Holocaust Memorial I do have an impression that it will grow on people just like the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. In a way it is similar. The Vietnam Memorial is a V shaped depression extending into the ground. It is shiny and greenish black and has the names of each soldier engraved into the stone. You can go and look up your friend or friends who died. The Holocaust Memorial looks like a vast prison surrounded by grey walls. The innumerable plaques dwarf the Vietnam Memorial. I guess you can get in and walk around and go look at each plaque, which appear to be like giant grave stones, but with no names. Does anybody know the names of all the Jews exterminated in the Holocaust? The thing looks really spooky, horrendous and appropriate to me. That being said, self preservation dictates that Germans eventually moves on.

As you say“And so long as, and to the extent that, the memorials choose to take the legacy of those years as their tradition and foundation, I don’t see there being any hope of burying that legacy.” True, but this needs to be only temporary. I saw a TV special about a Jew who survived concentration camp and now spends his time going around visiting school children in Germany as they study German history. The kids all seemed torn between feeling guilty for their parents having participated in the Nazi regime and wanting to move on. Frankly I don’t know the proper posture to take in these situations, but I do know that what ever it is it can’t be maintained for ever. There is always a vast difference between the media’s portrayals of “the way things are” and the way things really are. People’s public performances for the camera do not reflect the mundane reality that makes up real life. Hence all these public expressions and portrayals, memorials, etc are basically false. Unless Germans self destructively mimics the US where we still must publicly pretend to grovel in apology for things that happened hundreds of years ago, Hitler will one day be seen as just another Napoleon, or at worst an Attila the Hun.

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