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	<title>Comments on: Batman, fake existentialist</title>
	<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/</link>
	<description>A graduate student in mathematics and a modern languages major take on politics and culture with the following aspirational motto: ‘Deregulate your mind.’</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-555</link>
		<author>Dave</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-555</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have got to admit Curt, that you have an interesting take on the new Batman movie. I will have to see it soon. If I understand you correctly you criticize the movie because of its pro establishment attitude. If so it is only being true to its origins and the origins of all such post WWII comic book and TV heroes. 
Remember, these media emerged at a time when the U.S. had been victorious in war at great cost and now faced the new Soviet enemy. Then came McCarthyism.
 Old WWII serials seen at the movies and on later on TV featured mysterious subversive nefarious elements who were either Germans or inscrutable Orientals, who inhabited underground submarine bases and trapped their victims in mysterious rooms that issued poison gas or featured other bizarre ways of harming people 
 The comic book heroes faced similar villains who always had evil magical like technological powers, such as kryptonite or strange rays or poisons. The establishment, the government, police etc. were helpless in the face of such evil. The super heroes were staunchly pro –American. I remember that each Superman program on TV stated his dedication to “truth, justice and the American way!” The comics got more and more graphic, especially the horror comics, until they were upsetting parents and teachers. It is ironic that the psychiatrist Fredric Wertham, a fan  of Marxist,  Theodor Adorno, got these comics removed from circulation and those which remained were censored. 
 ( http://www.comics.dm.net/codetext.htm) (www.reason.com/0506/cr.fh.the.shtml -)
This one of political correctness’s first victories and more followed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Later movie heroes, such as Dirty Harry, Die Hard or Beverly Hills Cops took the approach of the good guys breaking   procedures in order to get around incompetent authorities, and every movie since that time features corrupt or incompetent police department or government that the hero must over rule in order to make justice prevail. These people worry little about social justice or libertarianism. They just want get the villain.&lt;br /&gt;
Superhero movies have exploited the incompetent or helpless authorities theme almost uniformly and many such as Robocop have also featured the corrupt influences of big business, and are thus more antiestablishment than the movies that merely portray authorities as incompetent. Still, I have never seen Bat Man, Superman or the Phantom out helping organize labor unions or demonstrating for civil rights in their off hours. Most superheroes live in mansions or work at regular boring jobs when not saving the citizenry. Maybe I haven’t been to the movies enough lately, but maybe you can name a few superhero flicks that do promote a libertarian or anti-establishment point of view?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have got to admit Curt, that you have an interesting take on the new Batman movie. I will have to see it soon. If I understand you correctly you criticize the movie because of its pro establishment attitude. If so it is only being true to its origins and the origins of all such post WWII comic book and TV heroes. 
Remember, these media emerged at a time when the U.S. had been victorious in war at great cost and now faced the new Soviet enemy. Then came McCarthyism.
 Old WWII serials seen at the movies and on later on TV featured mysterious subversive nefarious elements who were either Germans or inscrutable Orientals, who inhabited underground submarine bases and trapped their victims in mysterious rooms that issued poison gas or featured other bizarre ways of harming people 
 The comic book heroes faced similar villains who always had evil magical like technological powers, such as kryptonite or strange rays or poisons. The establishment, the government, police etc. were helpless in the face of such evil. The super heroes were staunchly pro –American. I remember that each Superman program on TV stated his dedication to “truth, justice and the American way!” The comics got more and more graphic, especially the horror comics, until they were upsetting parents and teachers. It is ironic that the psychiatrist Fredric Wertham, a fan  of Marxist,  Theodor Adorno, got these comics removed from circulation and those which remained were censored. 
 ( <a href="http://www.comics.dm.net/codetext.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.comics.dm.net/codetext.htm</a>) (www.reason.com/0506/cr.fh.the.shtml -)
This one of political correctness’s first victories and more followed.</p>

<p>Later movie heroes, such as Dirty Harry, Die Hard or Beverly Hills Cops took the approach of the good guys breaking   procedures in order to get around incompetent authorities, and every movie since that time features corrupt or incompetent police department or government that the hero must over rule in order to make justice prevail. These people worry little about social justice or libertarianism. They just want get the villain.<br />
Superhero movies have exploited the incompetent or helpless authorities theme almost uniformly and many such as Robocop have also featured the corrupt influences of big business, and are thus more antiestablishment than the movies that merely portray authorities as incompetent. Still, I have never seen Bat Man, Superman or the Phantom out helping organize labor unions or demonstrating for civil rights in their off hours. Most superheroes live in mansions or work at regular boring jobs when not saving the citizenry. Maybe I haven’t been to the movies enough lately, but maybe you can name a few superhero flicks that do promote a libertarian or anti-establishment point of view?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-554</link>
		<author>Curt</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-554</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In addition to the fact that, once again, he himself says he's just a symbol.  A symbol for what?  Well, that's the question.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to the fact that, once again, he himself says he&#8217;s just a symbol.  A symbol for what?  Well, that&#8217;s the question.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shonk</title>
		<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-553</link>
		<author>shonk</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-553</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;This film should be praised by libertarians since it demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A fictitious superhero in a cape "demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government"?  I guess David Friedman and John Hasnas have just been wasting their time, then.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This film should be praised by libertarians since it demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government.</i></p>

<p>A fictitious superhero in a cape &#8220;demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government&#8221;?  I guess David Friedman and John Hasnas have just been wasting their time, then.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-552</link>
		<author>Curt</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I saw nothing in this film that lead me to believe that Bruce Wayne was ‘repelled by private justice’ since (if I understand your point correctly) that system you speak of (in the form of the “League of Shadows”) was one not based on Wayne’s values.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I suppose I base that on what seemed to me the somewhat trivial distinction that he made in his "I will fight crime, but I'm not an executioner" speech, exemplified by his later declaration: "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you!"  I mean, sure he doesn't want to be executing criminals himself, but it's hard to picture him opposing the government if it decided to do so.  Yes, I don't doubt that there is semi-libertarian subtext intended, my only point is that it seems to me to be a fairly superficial one.  Unless you agree with all the laws and one's opposition to police bullying is merely procedural, what does it matter if the law is being enforced by cops or a superhero in a cape?  How does Batman fulfill a role any different than that which would be filled by an additional 50 officers?  As I suggested, if Batman were truly independent one would think he would have a different standard of justice and ethics which would put him in opposition to the police semi-frequently, which doesn't seem to be the case when they are shining the bat-beacon every time they need a crime solved.  I'll put it this way: think of the difference between Batman and Robin Hood.  Well, I'm probably reading too much into this, but it seems semi-relevant if only because many children are introduced to it, as I was, at a very young and impressionable age.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I saw nothing in this film that lead me to believe that Bruce Wayne was ‘repelled by private justice’ since (if I understand your point correctly) that system you speak of (in the form of the “League of Shadows”) was one not based on Wayne’s values.</i></p>

<p>I suppose I base that on what seemed to me the somewhat trivial distinction that he made in his &#8220;I will fight crime, but I&#8217;m not an executioner&#8221; speech, exemplified by his later declaration: &#8220;I won&#8217;t kill you, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I have to save you!&#8221;  I mean, sure he doesn&#8217;t want to be executing criminals himself, but it&#8217;s hard to picture him opposing the government if it decided to do so.  Yes, I don&#8217;t doubt that there is semi-libertarian subtext intended, my only point is that it seems to me to be a fairly superficial one.  Unless you agree with all the laws and one&#8217;s opposition to police bullying is merely procedural, what does it matter if the law is being enforced by cops or a superhero in a cape?  How does Batman fulfill a role any different than that which would be filled by an additional 50 officers?  As I suggested, if Batman were truly independent one would think he would have a different standard of justice and ethics which would put him in opposition to the police semi-frequently, which doesn&#8217;t seem to be the case when they are shining the bat-beacon every time they need a crime solved.  I&#8217;ll put it this way: think of the difference between Batman and Robin Hood.  Well, I&#8217;m probably reading too much into this, but it seems semi-relevant if only because many children are introduced to it, as I was, at a very young and impressionable age.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Renzulli</title>
		<link>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-551</link>
		<author>Mike Renzulli</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sellingwaves.com/2005/06/18/batman-fake-existentialist/#comment-551</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can appreciate and see where you are coming from but I would point out that "Batman Begins" (speaking from a strictly libertarian point of view) is also about a wealthy individual who fights crime and has nearly brought it to a halt which leads to undermining the very system established to combat it in Gotham City. The audience sees the corruption in the form of bribed judges and police officers and Batman affiliates himself with the honest elements (albeit a minority) of Gotham's law enforcement in order to root out crime and the bureaucrats who help perpetuate it. I saw nothing in this film that lead me to believe that Bruce Wayne was 'repelled by private justice' since (if I understand your point correctly) that system you speak of (in the form of the "League of Shadows") was one not based on Wayne's values. It lacked the compassion he was speaking of and he decided to go it alone. In a way, Batman has no alternative to combat crime using the government-run police and courts since they have a monpoly on the services they provide. This film should be praised by libertarians since it demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government. I would also point out that the producers of this film got much of their ideas from Frank Miller and David Muzzucelli's "Batman: Year One" comic series and Miller is well-known for his libertarian-oriented comics like his excellent "Martha Washington" and "Sin City" series. Thanks for the time!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can appreciate and see where you are coming from but I would point out that &#8220;Batman Begins&#8221; (speaking from a strictly libertarian point of view) is also about a wealthy individual who fights crime and has nearly brought it to a halt which leads to undermining the very system established to combat it in Gotham City. The audience sees the corruption in the form of bribed judges and police officers and Batman affiliates himself with the honest elements (albeit a minority) of Gotham&#8217;s law enforcement in order to root out crime and the bureaucrats who help perpetuate it. I saw nothing in this film that lead me to believe that Bruce Wayne was &#8216;repelled by private justice&#8217; since (if I understand your point correctly) that system you speak of (in the form of the &#8220;League of Shadows&#8221;) was one not based on Wayne&#8217;s values. It lacked the compassion he was speaking of and he decided to go it alone. In a way, Batman has no alternative to combat crime using the government-run police and courts since they have a monpoly on the services they provide. This film should be praised by libertarians since it demonstrates that private efforts to combat crime and corruption can do a better job than government. I would also point out that the producers of this film got much of their ideas from Frank Miller and David Muzzucelli&#8217;s &#8220;Batman: Year One&#8221; comic series and Miller is well-known for his libertarian-oriented comics like his excellent &#8220;Martha Washington&#8221; and &#8220;Sin City&#8221; series. Thanks for the time!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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